MMP BR 16 Ton Mineral Wagon

[farnetti]

I bought this during the build of the 13 ton wagon and David assured me it would be much quicker and easier to complete. I didn't find the last one particularly difficult as everything is so accurately etched.

The instructions follow a very similar sequence and would be easy to fall into the trap of thinking it is so alike that they are superfluous. These are very detailed kits and constant reference to the notes and drawings is necessary to understand how the parts go together and to plan ahead. I made some errors on the last kit which fortunately don't show except under close scrutiny.

I aimed to do better this time but just realised I forgot to take pictures of the frets and other components before starting. Oh well.

Photos here show the basic chassis parts folded and laid out ready for soldering, inner and outer solebars and crossbeams assembled, and rest of the parts added with the bracing plates and brake hanger brackets added. (If you are going to build this please note that the brake hanger brackets are orientated incorrectly on drawing 1, drawing 3 shows them facing the correct way). Finally the body folded up with the piece across the top of the end door soldered in place.

 

[farnetti]

So now I've got the buffers and couplings hooks fitted, similar to the last build but it took less time.

The W-irons made and one axlebox folded up for show. I like to make the axleboxes up much earlier than the instructions suggest to check they slide in the W-irons freely before those are fitted to the underframe.

The W-irons have gone much better this time due to the following.

1. I understand the joggles much better (could have/should have the first time round).

2. The BR ones are much beefier.

3. I followed the idea I had after the previous LMS 13 ton post. Basically put the upper end in a 'hold and fold' and bend the lower part to 45 degrees remembering the half etched lines on these must be on the outside, do not remove but find something suitable to put underneath the reverse joggle. Personally I found that a 6" engineers ruler was the perfect height, slide it up to the underside of the reverse half etch line and press down with a suitable hard flat surface. It worked for me and was easy to do.

Now up to Norfolk for a few days and then a couple of weeks walking in the Cairngorms and Yorkshire Dales.

Here's the few piccies

 

[iak63]

A thread to watch with interest!
Oh the temptation to dabble.............

 

[farnetti]

Back from hols including trips on North Norfolk, Mid Norfolk, and Wensleydale railways, a day the NRM and walking in Scotland and the Yorkshire Dales.

Anyway, back to business,


Added the W-irons and coupling chains. You will also notice I managed to introduce a couple of minor and one major buckles in the frame overlay earlier on which I will have to deal with before fitting the body.



The next three show the body with the stanchions added also door end parts and corner strengthening pieces. The final photo shows the initial end and side door assemblies. I am aiming to use much less superglue on this model compared to the 13ton, but even using an RSU and tiny amounts of solder cream I have a fair bit of tidying up to do.

I kept the body and underframe separate for painting on the 13 ton but due to the prototype construction it would be difficult on this one without damaging some tiny brackets - has anyone managed it?

I usually wash assemblies in soapy water after each soldering session and then scrub everything with Shiny Sinks before painting. Just before taking these photos I found a bottle of Vaikal spray in father-in-laws kitchen cupboard which I used for washing, it seems very good at getting rid of stains but doesn't seem abrasive.

Good news, after 7 months of looking we have finally found a house we like. Bad news, it needs a shed load of work doing to it which will curtail my modelling time. Hey-ho.

Ken

 

[farnetti]

So, today I finished soldering the end door (apart from the cast hinges), added the axle bearings as they arrived with the S7 wheels from Slaters today (where would we be without them) and fitted out the solebars.


I wish I could get closer photos with my old cheap camera but it won't focus, probably a good thing.

Ken

 

[john lewsey]

Very neat Ken nice work

 

[farnetti]

Seem to have spent a lot of time with little to show today. Cleaned up and araldited the end door hinge housings and axleboxes. Soldered the the brackets for the ends of the leaf springs to the underframe, and then spent a long time cutting out and trimming the leaf springs. There are 6 leaves to each axlebox and despite a lot of filing have only found room for 5 and a half on the first one so far. As the instructions say they need to be a tight fit and thy will be!

At this stage the instructions suggest fitting the side door bangers and brake lever brackets to the underframe. I will leave these till later as the brackets are vulnerable and the bangers hinder the fitting of small parts on the V hangers.

The first photo is of the end door with hinge housings added, wheel bearings with axleboxes added and leaf springs cut out. The other two are of a test fit to the underframe while I try to get the 6th leaf into place. Also the little jig to form the brake shoes.




The other attachment I posted last night was an idea in response to the several 'On xxx's workbench' posts. We often see the results of fellow modellers labours but not the conditions in which they work. Just a thought.

Ken

 

[7mmMick]

Hi Ken,

A lovely tidy bench that, mine is utter chaos at the moment I found that as the instructions suggest the leaves are a very right fit. However once you get a method and the first done the rest are straightforward. I removed all the leaves from the sprue at once and cleaned up as a job lot. When cleaning the leaves up I made sure all remnants of the etching burr was removed and each leaf was polished with wet and dry so they are as smooth as possible. I then took the pocket and using a square file made sure there was no excess solder or burr on the inside, you have to be careful here though as it has to retain its strength. Finally I built up the assembly by doing opposite to the instructions and fitting the largest first and then working to the smallest, working the leaves side to side. For example with number six fitted the whole lot should be offset and then pull the lot on together. I found this works well once perfected rather than trying to feed the last one in on its own. Also be careful of flattening the springs out as you end up with an assembly that doesn't look right. The spring needs to retain its prototipical curve with room to travel between the top of the pocket and solebar stop.

I hope this makes sense, it's difficult to explain in plain text without a video or some sort. Absolutely loving the build and as I have said before I hope to get round to purchasing some of these myself. Looking forward to seeing it come together,

ATB Mick

 

[john lewsey]

So Ken a train of thirty of these

 

[djparkins]

So Ken a train of thirty of these

John,

I think the idea behind these models is that 'less is more'! You don't need thirty in, say, a small coal yard. I do know of one customer planning a full length 'windcutter' train using our kits though!

 

[farnetti]

Hi Ken,

A lovely tidy bench that, mine is utter chaos at the moment I found that as the instructions suggest the leaves are a very right fit. However once you get a method and the first done the rest are straightforward. I removed all the leaves from the sprue at once and cleaned up as a job lot. When cleaning the leaves up I made sure all remnants of the etching burr was removed and each leaf was polished with wet and dry so they are as smooth as possible. I then took the pocket and using a square file made sure there was no excess solder or burr on the inside, you have to be careful here though as it has to retain its strength. Finally I built up the assembly by doing opposite to the instructions and fitting the largest first and then working to the smallest, working the leaves side to side. For example with number six fitted the whole lot should be offset and then pull the lot on together. I found this works well once perfected rather than trying to feed the last one in on its own. Also be careful of flattening the springs out as you end up with an assembly that doesn't look right. The spring needs to retain its prototipical curve with room to travel between the top of the pocket and solebar stop.

I hope this makes sense, it's difficult to explain in plain text without a video or some sort. Absolutely loving the build and as I have said before I hope to get round to purchasing some of these myself. Looking forward to seeing it come together,

ATB Mick

Thanks Mick, I'll try doing them in reverse order as you suggest.

So Ken a train of thirty of these

I somehow doubt it John, not enough hours in the day or weeks in the year although thirty would look good going round Croscombe. I might well get another 3 pack and a couple of the variants at some point though.

Ken

 

[farnetti]

Well I started on the leaf springs again this morning and it all worked much better. I put them in the pocket in the following order 5,4,3,2 and 6 and then slid 1 in between 6 and 2. It worked for me!

Photos show the axleboxes and springs temporarily in place (also showing the cut I made to remove the buckled fret which will be hidden when the body is fitted); brake shoes cleaned up and ready to laminate in the jig; the end door soldered in place (2 hinge blocks need fettling and refitting); and some lower and upper side bits added with the doors again temporarily placed in position. By the way the inside lamination of the upper door requires a bend along its length 1mm from one edge, very difficult to do without a hold and fold I would imagine.


Once I have finished the body I am tempted to give it a fairly good bashing with a blunt point from the inside and bend a few bits on the outside. Has anyone done this and how did it look?

Ken

 

[djparkins]

By the way the inside lamination of the upper door requires a bend along its length 1mm from one edge, very difficult to do without a hold and fold I would imagine.

Once I have finished the body I am tempted to give it a fairly good bashing with a blunt point from the inside and bend a few bits on the outside. Has anyone done this and how did it look?

Ken

Ken -

Hold n' Fold - every home should have one - I suppose we kind of assume etched kit builders do! Certainly the part will need to be securely clamped prior to forming.

I don't think the blunt point is a good idea! It usually ends up looking over-done or a mistake on a model. Might be less risky to represent rust and general wear and tear by paint!

DJP

 

[7mmMick]

Hi ken,

All looks spot on now the springs are together. It has been done elsewhere on WT, I think by overseer. I am though inclined to agree with David, it's difficult to get it to look right IMHO.

ATB Mick

 

[richard carr]

Ken

It looks great, I wish I had the time to build several of these, perhaps not 30 though.

Richard

 

[farnetti]

Thanks David and Mick, I'm not sure about this but have seen so many photos with a lot of dents and damage - decide later - I've got to finish it first!

Thanks Richard, I think I saw a post where you doing 6 Catfish, how did they go? My modelling is quite slow.

So to todays efforts. Some tiny bits fitted (not very well) to the top door mounting before the hinges are fitted, Brake lever guides folded up with chains and pins fitted (no swearing, honest)!

Then there is a photo of the pins for the top door locking. As you can hopefully see from the ruler to the right these (just below the 70mm mark) they are about 1.5mm long and unless you can drill a tiny hole through the outside diameter of a slightly larger piece of wire which goes through the holes in the door and body of the wagon the long part of the pin will have be cut off and the remainder attached to the wire. Challenging to say the least, I don't know yet how I'm going to do it.


This is why it is so easy to get seriously addicted to these kits (for me anyway). 30 years ago or so (when my eyes were allowing me to model in 4mm) we often had rubbish etched kits were nothing fitted properly, so a lot of replacement bits had to be made or sourced elsewhere, took a lot of time or ended up being very expensive despite the initial low cost.

Ken

 

[djparkins]

Brake lever guides folded up with chains and pins fitted (no swearing, honest)!

Then there is a photo of the pins for the top door locking. As you can hopefully see from the ruler to the right these (just below the 70mm mark) they are about 1.5mm long and unless you can drill a tiny hole through the outside diameter of a slightly larger piece of wire which goes through the holes in the door and body of the wagon the long part of the pin will have be cut off and the remainder attached to the wire. Challenging to say the least, I don't know yet how I'm going to do it.

Ken -

The brake lever guides are no finer than in your 13 ton mineral so I think should be no more difficult.

As regards the top door fastenings this is just a limitation of scale really. I would be inclined to cut back the two lengths of .8mm rod slightly and just solder the etched latch pin to the eand of each rod as an 'eye fooler'.

I really think it is not practical to do as you suggest and cut the latch in two [even though we do suggest it slightly toungue in cheek ourselves in the instructions] and in the instructions we do also suggest leaving the latch pin/chains just hanging. But for a travelling vehicle, I think cutting the rod back a little and soldering the latch pins to them is the easier compromise.

As my own vehicles will be in a small coal yard, static and on view for 99% of the time, I wanted the ability to drop the top doors and have these latch assemblies just hanging there.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

David

 

[farnetti]

Ken -

The brake lever guides are no finer than in your 13 ton mineral so I think should be no more difficult.

As regards the top door fastenings this is just a limitation of scale really. I would be inclined to cut back the two lengths of .8mm rod slightly and just solder the etched latch pin to the eand of each rod as an 'eye fooler'.

I really think it is not practical to do as you suggest and cut the latch in two [even though we do suggest it slightly toungue in cheek ourselves in the instructions] and in the instructions we do also suggest leaving the latch pin/chains just hanging. But for a travelling vehicle, I think cutting the rod back a little and soldering the latch pins to them is the easier compromise.

As my own vehicles will be in a small coal yard, static and on view for 99% of the time, I wanted the ability to drop the top doors and have these latch assemblies just hanging there.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

David

The brake lever guides, chains and pins went together much more easily this time, I was just remembering my first attempt on the previous wagon.

I like your solution to the top door fastenings and will follow it.

Ken

 

[richard carr]

Ken

The catfish are progressing, slowly, the second one is getting close to being finished, it just needs the hand wheels to be fitted, the buffers added and then painted. I have got some good transfers from Appleby to finish them in 1980s style TOPS.
I have to admit though that I cheated a bit in the brake gear detail, I just omitted all the tiny links that no one can see and saved myself a good few hours work. It does make a really nice wagon. Only 4 more to build and 2 Dogfish too.

Richard

 

[farnetti]

Ken

The catfish are progressing, slowly, the second one is getting close to being finished, it just needs the hand wheels to be fitted, the buffers added and then painted. I have got some good transfers from Appleby to finish them in 1980s style TOPS.
I have to admit though that I cheated a bit in the brake gear detail, I just omitted all the tiny links that no one can see and saved myself a good few hours work. It does make a really nice wagon. Only 4 more to build and 2 Dogfish too.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Next time I'm up that way I'd love to see how things are progressing there, or maybe see you at Mark. I love the way these kits include everything you need (including any bits which you may decide to leave out).

Hope to see you soon,

Ken